MY BROTHER'S KEEPER

After years of fan outcry, the Thornton brothers have reunited as Clipse.​​ Terrence Thornton, aka Pusha T, and Gene Thornton, better known as Malice (he’s scrapped the “No” to return to his original moniker) are back together with a new album, Let God Sort Em Out, produced entirely by Pharrell Williams. It’s been 16 years since they released their last project, 2009’s Til the Casket Drops.

The rollout hasn’t been easy. Let God Sort Em Out, which was recorded in the Louis Vuitton headquarters in Paris, was originally supposed to drop last year, after the duo signed a deal with Def Jam. But according to the brothers, the label got cold feet over the album’s second track, “Chains & Whips,” which features a verse from Kendrick Lamar. Given Kendrick and Pusha’s charged history with Drake, the label reportedly wanted the song pulled. The duo refused. They ended up paying seven figures to get out of the deal. That’s when Clipse manager Steven Victor set up a new deal in which the album will be distributed by Jay-Z’s Roc Nation but released independently.

“We really didn't understand. We were like, ‘Man, this is really going to happen. They're really taking it this far,’” Pusha said. “[Victor] basically had that conversation directly with Hov himself, unbeknownst to us. And then came back and was like, ‘Yo, bro, I think we about to do this situation over at Roc Nation.’”

The duo is no stranger to ups and downs. (Real Clipse fans remember the trials and tribulations surrounding their 2006 album, Hell Hath No Fury.) But nothing shaped their story more than Malice’s departure 15 years ago, when he left the industry to focus on his faith. In the years that followed, Malice watched from a distance as his brother built a solo career, largely alongside Kanye West and GOOD Music.

“I’d see him out, and I just felt like he was surrounded by things that weren’t what he was used to. We were always around loyalty and genuine people,” Malice said. “I knew he could handle it, but if there was anything I missed, it was just being right there with him.”

Malice’s close relationship with his brother is part of why he’s back. And in some ways, Let God Sort Em Out is classic Clipse: With his witty, cocaine-based wordplay and dense rhyme patterns, Pusha T still plays the brash enforcer, while Malice raps with a weight and clarity that demands he gets the last word on songs. But there’s evolution, too. The production is often lush, with a gospel undercurrent throughout—a clear sign P is years removed from the haunting, skeletal minimalism of Hell Hath No Fury. The album also contains some of the most emotional songs of the Clipse’s career, including “The Birds Don’t Sing,” which features the two reflecting on the loss of both parents.

“I don't think the fundamentals of hip-hop go out of style,” Pusha T said. “And so as long as you're sharp there, then everything else is just about living and being able to articulate it.

During his solo years, Pusha developed a fighting streak that he hasn’t shaken. He takes aim at Jim Jones (on the aforementioned “Chains & Whips”) and Travis Scott (“So Be It”), without saying their names. He’s also been unapologetic in interviews, relishing the role of provocateur and leaning into conflict.

“I have to say, music journalism has been really good for us, so it's something we don’t shy away from,” Pusha said. “We actually look at people who do as not being confident in their product.”

Malice added: “We've been fortunate enough to have really good journalism. Clipse is a deep group. There are many sides to us. We're not your traditional, run-of-the-mill rap group. We've been addressing pretty much everything people want to know.”

That openness, paired with decades of Clipse lore, keeps them at the center of conversation—even when they’re not the ones talking. When N.O.R.E. recently appeared on a radio show, he talked about Pusha being furious that Pharrell didn’t pick him over Drake during a Drink Champs segment.

“That same conversation I had with N.O.R.E., I had it with P,” Pusha said. “I feel like N.O.R.E. made it feel like … I just had a conversation with him. Like no, it wasn't all parties involved. I have no clue why he talked about it to that guy. It’s rollout time though, man. Everybody wants a part of the clickbait.” 

In a way, Pusha, 48, and Malice, 52 and now a grandfather, offer a new framework for what aging in hip-hop can sound like: mature but not dusty.

“I think hip-hop has kind of jinxed itself into thinking that there is such a thing as too old that should never be accepted,” said Malice. “Either you got the talent or you don't. You could be old. You could be young. If you ain't got it, then you don't have it. You don't stay young forever and if you try to stay young forever, you start looking funny.”
We sat down with the evolved artists for three separate interviews: one in a Miami studio with Pharrell, where we listened to the album and got their real-time reactions; another over video call, where they spoke about the response to “Ace Trumpets,” label troubles, and Pusha’s relationship with Kanye; and finally, one more sitdown days before the album dropped.

“Chandeliers”

Featuring Nas

Can you talk about the difference in the approach from previous albums that you all worked on together to now?

Pharrell: Probably the only thing that I would say that is anything close to an evolution is that we spend more time on the compositions. There was a lot of trips to France. Lots. We never made an album on another continent, in another city. It was always Virginia. There's this thing with Paris and Virginia, it's crazy. I don't know what it is, but it just keeps giving. We've never done that.

We would usually lock in for about a month and a half, and I'd be going to the cellar and pulling some of my finest from shit we call “turndowns.” This one turned down. You guys would go looking, you'd go to specific places in the cellar and say, “Show me the Jay[-Z] files,” and show me this one’s files and that one. We used to do that.

But all of these songs were made, my mom would say, from scratch.

Pusha T: Made to spec, too.

Pharrell: That would be the only thing I'd say was different. But other than that, like he said, the standard has always just remained super high. We've always rhymed with Purple Tape [Only Built 4 Cuban Linx…] in the bullseye. That was what we was trying, to get that feeling, among others.

“So Far Ahead”

“Chains and Whips“

Featuring Kendrick Lamar

Pharrell: I don't know if you guys mind me sharing this, but I watched The Irishman and that shit changed me, because I saw Scorsese … this guy doesn't fucking miss, and he just gets better and better with time. And that doesn't happen with rap. A lot of times people feel like they age out. And I do understand that for some people. Some people, they get to a point where it's like, man, they ain't really got nothing else, and I love and respect that, because we have to respect artists in the intersection of where they are and their lives and their trajectory and their purpose, and there's all different versions of that.

But man, to God be the glory that we get to wake up and still feel this way about this shit and be fucking great. Greatness is as greatness does. A lot of people use that word, but I don't know if they really doing that though. They make people cry, and not even talking about dope, which is crazy.

Were you guys ever worried it wasn't going to come out?

Pusha T: Never.

Malice: There is nothing to ever worry about. Nothing. I don't fret, I don't chase. I ain't looking. I ain't peeking what's going on, what's holding it up. We did the work. For us, it's really about getting back to the music. That's what it's truly about. It was about getting back to the music with this hiatus and us not making music together for so long, and then to be able to do it and then to recapture that feeling when you were looking forward to a rap album coming out. That's the only thing that we focused on. And getting back to the fans, especially after announcing it and letting the fans know that this is what we have decided to do. It tries to damper with all the red tape and the politics and all of the stifling and all of that, but I am totally reserved, [and know] not to fret over nothing.

“Ace Trumpets”

Malice, what's been your reaction towards the positive reaction your verse got?

Malice: I'm thankful. And like I said before, it's really all about the fans. That's why we never came at that approach of “we're back.” The fans will let you know if you are back or not. And that's who you need to cater to and who you need to listen to or whatever. I know what I can do when it comes to the rap, I'm not in the dark about it at all.

Pusha, did you see how Kanye responded to the song? Basically, saying he missed your friendship. What's your reaction?

Pusha T: I don't care about that at all. It's fine. I'm sure. I would miss me, too. I really would.

Is that how you operate? Once we're done, we're done?

Pusha T: I’m not in a position to where I can even risk and gamble with the wishy- washiness or the lack of loyalty. I don't play like that. Why would I ever dive back into that type of scenario? I’m with my brother and Pharrell, come on.

I don't even understand that lack of principles just amongst people you call your brother. I don't get that. That's not for me.

Is there a memory that comes to mind when you realized, “Ooh, what we had is over?” Was it the Donda sessions?

Pusha T: The Donda Sessions—a lot of those were, it is just a whole host and a cast of characters. There are a lot of great ones who were there and who were contributors. And then there are a lot of people who are not that good, and they're just around, and they're around for no reason, and they're like the backbiters and the people who have hidden agendas and so on and so forth. But you surround yourself by all this chaos. It's not for me. It just wasn't for me.

On top of that, I mean, listen, just in how he tends to connect with a lot of people that I don't connect with. I don't understand that. That's just not my name. He does it a lot, and it's cool, but you got to just stay over there with that, and I'm going to stay over here with this.

“Birds Don't Sing”

Pusha T: I've been working for the past 14 years without my brother. Being in this business, knowing it, coming into it as a collective, then being in it for so long by myself and really understanding brotherhood, camaraderie, family, loyalty, and knowing what that was and then not having it for so long and just being out there like, warrior time. You appreciate it so much.

Malice: The timing is right. I feel like No Malice did everything he was supposed to do. I had to sit down. I had to reflect. I had to get into my Word, understand who God is, and what my purpose is. And until I felt like that was flushed out, or until I was shown that it was flushed out, I just felt like everything was just perfect. And just to see my brother in position, Pharrell still in position, and me being where I needed to be, and to be able to come back, it’s really a no-brainer. I feel like it's ordained and I feel like it's time.

Pharrell: Everybody was trying to figure out how that was going to work. And I loved that it was the complete opposite. It's actually one of the most special parts of this album is you telling that story, and the revelations of your experiences and you being generous enough to share that with everybody and take everybody on the journey. Like, “you guys don't know.” And we sat back, and we knew everyone was trying to figure that out. But that was the cool thing. That's what we used. We used it. It's actually the coolest part of the whole album. This guy has fucking seen it, seen the whole journey. So you guys are going to see this movie.

Pusha T: To me, the music's always going to be good. We know that part. But what I appreciate about this situation more than anything is actually being able to turn my back knowing that somebody got my back, whichever way I turn. It ain't been like that.Pharrell: Knowing people love you, man. That’s all I’m saying.

Pusha T: It ain't been like that for a long time.

Pharrell: It's got to be that. You need to feel loved and appreciated. You know what I mean? And that's the only reason why I love this as much as I do, because I feel that appreciation. And because of that, that motivates me to show up and kill everybody in the room. That's what they asked me to do. That's what I'm here to do.

Malice: Let God sort ’em out.

Pharrell: Amen.