42 Dugg is Rap’s No. 1 “Sh*t Talker”

42 Dugg isn’t trying to rap for the rest of his life. In fact, he already has a post rap plan.

“I’m moving to France,” the Detroit rapper tells Complex with a chuckle when asked what he plans to do after rap. “I think that's the way to go. I don't be seeing no indictments out there [Laughs]...I just don't want rap to be my main thing—Jay-Z type shit. At 50-years-old I might go.” Thankfully, fans have about 21 more years before Dugg chooses to call it quits. At the ripe age of 29, he has finally released his debut album, 4eva Us Neva Them. The project is being considered his debut despite the rapper having four other bodies of work dating back to 2019. Dugg started writing raps during a stint in prison in 2017 and began releasing music when he got out in 2018. He blew up nationally thanks to his feature on Lil Baby’s classic “We Paid.” He then carried that momentum into his 2021 mixtape Free Dem Boyz, a project that Dugg considered his album…until it wasn’t. “I thought [Free Dem Boyz] was an album,” he said. “I was telling [Future] that too. He like, ‘Man, just keep going. If this is your first album do your best.’ I feel like I struck gold. I feel like whatever they make money off of us should be an album. That’s what I feel like. If you made money off it, why is it not an album? Because I thought mixtapes were free?”

4eva Us Neva Them is one of his most sonically diverse and layered projects of the rapper’s career. He delivers emotional ballads for the streets on tracks like “Fresh From The Feds” and “Go Again Pt. 2.” He also makes a conscious effort to make more tracks that the women in his fanbase can party to, linking up with Sexyy Red on “N.P.O.” Dugg wanted to work with Sexyy because of how her authenticity made her relatable.

“I feel like she’s every regular girl’s alter ego,” Dugg said. “Every regular girl got a wild outside. Every regular girl want to talk crazy, but that’s just not their personality. So I feel like watching her get everybody is like [girls saying], ‘I would've said that.’ She makes good music, she from the hood, how can't you get behind her? Same thing with [GloRilla]. I feel like they one-in-one, how you can't get behind these girls?”

And 42 Dugg still leaves space to link up with his friend and 4PF labelmate Lil Baby once again on “No Love.” On the track, Baby alludes to sending money to help Young Thug pay his lawyer fees, and Dugg says he’s been paying attention to the ongoing YSL RICO case as well. As someone who has had to deal with the tumultuous legal system, he believes the entire case should be dropped.

“I think it should have been dismissed,” he says. “From the outside looking-in, it looks like they got something against [Young Thug]. I don't know how the world wouldn’t feel like that. I don't know how the jurors are not feeling like they got something against him.”

We recently caught up with the Detroit rapper to talk about his new album, 4eva Us Neva Them, working with J. Cole in the studio, and why knowing how to freestyle is still an important skill.

Some places online call Young and Turnt your debut album, while others label this one, 4eva Us Neva Them, your debut. Would you consider this project your debut? And if so, why did this one deserve that distinction compared to the others?
This is my debut album. This is where I put the most consideration and the most time. Of course I did my best on everything. I wanted Free Dem Boyz to be my debut, but they were like, “Nope.”

What goes into those decisions?
I don't know, bro [laughs]. They need to tell me. I thought [Free Dem Boyz] was an album. I was telling [Future] that too. He like, “Man, just keep going. If this is your ‘first album,’ do your best.” I feel like I struck gold. I feel like whatever they make money off of us should be an album. That’s what I feel like. If you made money off it, why is it not an album? Because I thought mixtapes were free?

One of the first songs you recorded after being let out of solitary confinement was “Mama I’m Sorry.”How important has your mom been to your career?
She my everything, she’s my mama. Most of my deep songs, I'm always going to say something about my mama because me and her have the deepest relationship. So anytime I'm thinking hard, thinking strong, I'm going to what my mama said.

You’ve talked about how good you think Sexyy Red is. Why do you think she’s been so successful lately, and what made you want to include her on the album?
I feel like she’s every regular girl’s alter ego. Every regular girl got a wild outside. Every regular girl want to talk crazy, but that’s just not their personality. So I feel like watching her get everybody is like [girls saying], “I would've said that.” She makes good music, she from the hood, how can't you get behind her? Same thing with GloRilla. I feel like they one-in-one, how you can't get behind these girls?

What was your favorite part about putting this album together?
Probably just the creative process, coming up with some songs. I don't know how I do it. I just go in there and each time I try to be different than the last song. It's just a feeling that I be having. I'm very particular with making sure I can capture how I'm feeling and what way I'm shifting towards in my life. I feel I did that a lot on here.

Is it true that you rarely write your raps when you’re recording? Where did you pick up that up from?
Yeah, I don’t write at all. But I will say this, if an idea comes to me, I write it in my notes. Sometimes it be a melody, though. I probably have, like, 10 melodies on my phone. I remember when I first started rapping in jail, that was the worst thing I had to deal with was trying to remember melodies. I would have to say them 50 times straight. You could write it down, but writing it down ain't going to tell you how you're supposed to voice it.

Do you think rising rappers need to know how to freestyle in order to be successful?
I wouldn’t say to be successful, but I feel like you should try everything. You should know a little bit of everything as far as writing. I know for some artists, when it's a real good song where they feel like they got to do their best, they be like, “I'm going to write to this.” I don’t do that, but maybe I should start.

What was your experience like for your XXL Freshman freestyle? Do you think it still works with new acts?
I made my [freestyle] up right there on the spot. I freestyle when I rap, so I just acted like I was in the studio and punched a few lines together. That's why I was so short. I punched a few lines together in my head, said it a few times, and I went out there and did it.

Do you think the XXL Freshman freestyle cypher still works for today's class of rapper?
I feel like that's on XXL to capture the people that will do it the right way. I feel like that should go into consideration. Like, will they be a good cypher? Because that's a big part of the double XXL [Freshman class]. So I feel like that should be a big part of their consideration when they’re picking out freshman artists. Or let 'em know it doesn’t have to be a cypher, come with a verse if y’all want it to be good. If not, then keep doing it how y'all doing it.

It's different now, bro. People in their own bag, so they just got to take that into consideration when they do the freestyle. When [XXL] brings you to do the photoshoot, I think they should ask right there, “Will you be able to do the freestyle? If you can’t do it, we don’t want you.” Just to see what they say.

You were in the studio with J. Cole about a month after you were released from prison last year. Were you two able to make any music together?
I don't think we made nothing on that time, but we did later on. I was shy [Laughs]. I'm like, “Damn, he a [lyrical] motherfucker. I'm a shit-talker.” We were in there and I was like, “Bro, what you want me to do?” It was funny as hell. I fuck with Cole. I have to get back in the studio. I have to show him that I get busy.

Lil Baby has a line on “No Love” where he says that he sent a million dollars to Young Thug for legal fees. Have you been tapped into the YSL case at all? How do you think it’s been handled?
I've been trying to watch a little bit. I don't click purposely on it, but if I see it I'll watch it. I think it should have been dismissed. I think the shit with [former judge Ural Glanville] that happened, I don't understand. From the outside looking in, it looks like they got something against [Young Thug]. I don't know how the world wouldn’t feel like that. I don't know how the jurors are not feeling like they got something against him. I don't want to speak on that because motherfuckers might arrest me.

You had your own version of Kendrick’s Pop Out show at the beginning of the year for Detroit. How important was that to put together for you, and do you still see the positive effects of it today?
They got record deals and everything from that. It was hard getting the Westside to the venue because just some back-and-forth shit. But we came together. I'm glad we did. And it turned out good man. It turned out good for everybody. Everybody has been getting opportunities from that, and that's what I told them beforehand. Like, “Bro, this going to be big.” Now hopefully they’re eating from it.

How would you describe the state of Detroit rap today compared to when it really blew up 2018?
There are a lot of opportunities for a lot of new artists right now. And back when I was [coming out], it was Tee Grizzley and maybe Peezy, but they were like trying to go big. Going big is different from having 500,000 followers on Instagram. Being on these award shows and getting nominated is going big. So now I feel like they getting those types of opportunities, and they just got to keep working at it. We as a whole just got to keep working at it and keep giving it our best shot.

What does success look like for you at this point in your life and career? How has it changed?
Just being happy with my family, get all my homeboys out of jail. We just having fun taking care of the kids, man. Staying fresh, staying focused, and making good music. I really want to quit. I'm ready to quit. Shit too stressful.

What would you do after rapping?
I'm moving to France.

Why France?
I don't know. I think that's the way to go. I don't be seen no indictments out there [Laughs].

Have you ever been to France?
Hell no, but they got some cold ass houses with the grapes and shit. We going to go out there. We might drop an album every two years. I just don't want rap to be my main thing. Jay-Z type shit. At 50-years-old I might go.